Black Bacon.

[Mick]

7 hours ago, Icefever said:

It is so easy, weigh the joint that you're going to cure, pop it in the calculator and it will give you the amounts of the main ingredients. Prague #1,  salt (Koser or pink Himalayan ) whichever you prefer.
I think of anything else as 2nd ingredients, pepper, sugar, herbs, spice's etc etc...

ie..if the calculator says 28 grams of sugar but you want a little more or less it won't interfere with the curing method.

Link to Wade's calculator.....https://www.woodsmokeforum.uk/topic/887-nitrite-cure-calculator/?tab=comments#comment-6588

 

Ice.

 

Thanks ice, perfect

[Mick]

Interesting

I have ordered the curing salt and some kosher salt, might even use some home brew which will be ready in about 2 weeks

[Wade]

Hi Brian

To answer your questions.

15 hours ago, Icefever said:

@Wade  I've been curing bacon for a couple of years now and feel confident in what I do, but a question has been running through my noggin and I would like to answer it.

I followed the recipe for black bacon, but..always a but....when one does a dry cure..(which is what I've always done) does adding a liquid, in this case, beer dilute the curing salts???.
The pork belly feels firm, as it should, I will have to look back at the recipe at the amount of #1 against the weight of the belly...then we come back to adding 130ml of beer does that reduce its ability to do its job?? or is it just in suspension and works just the same???. 

Ice.

Firstly, you need to ask yourself if you should be using Guinness in your recipe as it is quite acid. Most beers have a pH of about 4 and the can of Guinness I tested had a pH of 4.1

 

The curing salts are fairly unstable in acid lower than pH 4.8 and begin to break down exponentially as its environment becomes more acidic
www.woodsmokeforum.uk/topic/306-take-care-when-using-acid-ingredients-in-a-cure/
It will probably be OK but the effectiveness of the cure will diminish over time with the acidic Guinness, however the cure in the bacon it is mainly there to add colour and flavour - both of which will be masked by the treacle and Guinness.

Beer is not as bad though as it would have been if you were using Cola (Ph 2.5). Cola with curing salts should be avoided unless the cola is diluted to below 30% with water

Now for the curing calculation

By adding the 150 ml of Guinness you are effectively turning this from a Dry Cure into an immersion cure and so the weight of the guinness needs to be taken into account when calculating the amount of cure required. Fistly you need to know how much 150ml of Guinness weighs. Does it weigh the same as water?

Yes - the contents of a 440ml can of Guinness weighs 439g (the things I do in the name of science!!) and so it is effectively the same weight as water.

The cure calculator should then be used with the weight of the meat PLUS the weight of the Guinness brine

Be wary though about using Celery Salt in your cure mix as Celery is a significant source of Nitrate - in fact it is often used as a substute for Cure#1/#2 where they are trying not to show that a product contains Nitrite/Nitrate. The EU has actually legislated on how much Celery can be added as a flavouring before it must be declared as a source of Nitrate. Also when you use Celery Salt you usually dont know how much is celery powder and how much is salt so that will effect the results of the calculator.
Although in the recipe you have listed Celery Salt I see in the video you are using Himalayan pink salt - which is fine

Without the 150 ml of guinness you would have needed

2.4 g of Cure#1
23-28 g Salt (for either 2.5% or 3%)

With the 150 ml of guinness you would have needed

2.8 g of Cure#1
26-32 g Salt (for either 2.5% or 3%)

Once the cure is complete the meat will have taken up most of the liquid and so will have increased in weight by 10+%. It should then be stored and treared as immersion cured or brine pumped bacon as it will not have the dehydration preservation component.

 

14 hours ago, Icefever said:

Just checked the curing calculator and for a 1kg of meat it says 2.4 grams #1......the recipe used 3.5 gams. Interesting,  I wonder if the extra 0.9 grams was because of the liquid???

As Jonny 5  would say "Need more input" 😂

Ice.

Even with the additional weight of Guinness the 3.5 g of Cure #1 would result in 190 ppm ingoing Nitrite. It will not harm you at that level if eaten in moderation but it is still above the commercial legal maximums. 

I hope this helps

[Justin]

Great advice

[Wade]

On 3/13/2020 at 11:02 AM, Mick said:

I will be doing this soon definitely, only thing is for my first try I used Wade's kit, I am a bit worried about the pink salt stuff when mixing my own, am I correct that it is number 1?

Hi MIck

The pre mix salt supplied in the bacon kit is to stop beginners from accidentally using too much cure. Now that you are a veteran bacon maker you should not be nervous about using Cure#1 directly. Do not mistake the culinery "Pink Salt" (e.g Himalayan Salt) for Curing salt. In the USA (and other parts of the world) they often add a pink dye to the cures to stop people mistaking it for common salt. It is unusual for the pink dye to be added in the UK.

The base recipe for each 1 Kg of meat - make the cure using

2.4 g of Cure #1
22.5 g of fine cooking salt
12.5 g sugar
10 g of flavouring (pepper/herbs/spices etc.)

Blitz together in a coffee grinder or spice grinder (or mortar and pestle) and apply to the meat

You can play with the type of salt you use, the amount of sugar and the flavourings - but keep the amouns of Cure#1 and salt constant.

Would you like me to send you some Cure #1?

[Mick]

51 minutes ago, Wade said:

Hi MIck

The pre mix salt supplied in the bacon kit is to stop beginners from accidentally using too much cure. Now that you are a veteran bacon maker you should not be nervous about using Cure#1 directly. Do not mistake the culinery "Pink Salt" (e.g Himalayan Salt) for Curing salt. In the USA (and other parts of the world) they often add a pink dye to the cures to stop people mistaking it for common salt. It is unusual for the pink dye to be added in the UK.

The base recipe for each 1 Kg of meat - make the cure using

2.4 g of Cure #1
22.5 g of fine cooking salt
12.5 g sugar
10 g of flavouring (pepper/herbs/spices etc.)

Blitz together in a coffee grinder or spice grinder (or mortar and pestle) and apply to the meat

You can play with the type of salt you use, the amount of sugar and the flavourings - but keep the amouns of Cure#1 and salt constant.

Would you like me to send you some Cure #1?

Thanks for the advice, and thanks for the offer of the salt #1 I have actually ordered some today so hopefully it is the correct stuff

[Mick]

This is my order, pretty sure it is right

[Icefever]

6 hours ago, Wade said:

Even with the additional weight of Guinness the 3.5 g of Cure #1 would result in 190 ppm ingoing Nitrite. It will not harm you at that level if eaten in moderation but it is still above the commercial legal maximums. 

I hope this helps

WOW...thanks Wade...you put that question to bed ok.  Will have to re-read it a couple of times to get it to stick in the old noggin. Glad I only done a small slab of belly, got a whole pork loin in the fridge at the mo, was going to do a 1/3 of it as black bacon today will now hold fire until I can check and double-check my weights of all ingredients.

 

6 hours ago, Wade said:

It should then be stored and treared as immersion cured or brine pumped bacon as it will not have the dehydration preservation component.

Just re-read your post and now understand it, grey matters a little slow at this time of the morning  😁. Now I need to sort out the above about storing it.

 

ps.........Just read your link above makes a whole lot of sense, anyone curing meat should read this....Many thanks.

Ice.

 

Edited March 15, 2020 by Icefever

[Icefever]

5 hours ago, Mick said:

This is my order, pretty sure it is right

 

Looks fine to me Mick  👍

Ice.

[Wade]

8 hours ago, Mick said:

This is my order, pretty sure it is right

Yes all looks good. One comment about the salt... there is nothing wrong with using Kosher salt but it is quite an expensive option. The "Kosher" part of Kosher salt usually refers to the salt grain size and as you are going to blitz the cure to evenly blend it before applying it to the meat it seems a pity to fork out so much money on Kosher salt when standard fine cooking salt (or standard fine sea salt) will do the same job. I would also question the effect of using some of the flavoured salts (e.g. Himalayan Pink Salt) on the end product - especially when you are using other flavourings - as the salt flavours are quite subtle on their own. Nothing wrong with using them however are they worth the additional cost - or just being used to add some kind of mystical virtue to the bacon...

[Justin]

I use bog standard salt.  Blitzed is blitzed. Same for smoked salmon

[Mick]

9 hours ago, Wade said:

Yes all looks good. One comment about the salt... there is nothing wrong with using Kosher salt but it is quite an expensive option. The "Kosher" part of Kosher salt usually refers to the salt grain size and as you are going to blitz the cure to evenly blend it before applying it to the meat it seems a pity to fork out so much money on Kosher salt when standard fine cooking salt (or standard fine sea salt) will do the same job. I would also question the effect of using some of the flavoured salts (e.g. Himalayan Pink Salt) on the end product - especially when you are using other flavourings - as the salt flavours are quite subtle on their own. Nothing wrong with using them however are they worth the additional cost - or just being used to add some kind of mystical virtue to the bacon...

Thanks Wade totally understand, salt is salt at the end of the day 👍

[Skagg2000]

This is on my list to do next week. Off to the pig farm tomorrow to pick up 10kg of back /lion  not sure of the correct term. Some will be dry cure, some will be maple, some will be whiskey oak & some will be ths, black bacon. 

Swmbo say i have to make some more hogs pudding before I start anything else, apparently i have 100 yards on ox runner on the way! Jeez!

Cheers n Gone Nick

[Mick]

Just doing this and found out I have no dark beer, would it be ok to just leave it out? I will carry on without and can always add later if someone thinks it's a must

Cheers

[Gaza the Instructor]

Sorry Mick I drunk all the dark stuff

[Icefever]

17 hours ago, Mick said:

Just doing this and found out I have no dark beer, would it be ok to just leave it out? I will carry on without and can always add later if someone thinks it's a must

Cheers

Ya daft bugger...🤣 the dark beer is one of the main tastes....without it your doing a black treacle bacon, not to sure if the treacle will be overpowering..????

As you've only just started it I can't see any problems with adding beer today??? Wade we need you. 🤔

 

Ice.

[Icefever]

11 hours ago, Gaza the Instructor said:

Sorry Mick I drunk all the dark stuff

That's you all over....🤣🤣...is this the reason you've been AWOL from the forums??? or do you have a better reason??

 

Ice.

[Gaza the Instructor]

Iceman fed up with the other one Bees, sheep, goats, polly tunnels, but no Distillin'

and I really don't smoke in the Winter. I roast Coffee ,make a lot of Rum and Vodka

etc and try to get nursey's knicks down Ha Ha!!

[Mick]

Sorry, been rough but added Guinness the day after all looks good been going 9 days now

[Justin]

I often brew dark beers  if anyone wants to try a bottle of that to make black bacon with that, I have a load of Irish Stout at the moment all bottled up

Edited October 20, 2020 by Justin

[Icefever]

2 hours ago, Mick said:

Sorry, been rough but added Guinness the day after all looks good been going 9 days now

Great...........how long are you going to give it???  what about a couple of photos???

 

Ice.

[Mick]

So have it all rinsed now and back in fridge drying 

[Mick]

The black looks amazing, I did a couple of plain with just added black pepper, the outside has some brown/grey areas is this ok? Cut it off and fine underneath

[Mick]

The last pic is a slice of brown in previous pic cut off

[Mick]

1 hour ago, Justin said:

I often brew dark beers  if anyone wants to try a bottle of that to make black bacon with that, I have a load of Irish Stout at the moment all bottled up

Very nice offer Justin, and will be 3/4 bottle let for the chef