blademansw Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 Hi all New member, I discovered this forum by accident looking for UK alternatives to Weber briquettes! I have just recently had a large house extension done, and I thought it was sensible to do the back garden at the same time as it was cheaper to do whilst heavy equipment was on site. I instructed the builders to build me a 7m x 3m concrete slab, with a single course of concrete blocks, they also left me a 100mm x 50mm wall floor plate concrete screwed to the blocks. I have properly gone down the rabbit hole on this, and I am desperately trying to keep the budget under 2 grand as that is how much is in the kitty. This is the area (with my Masterbuilt Gravity 560 for scale) I had originally planned to do walls in 50x100 C24 treated on 600 centres, roof joists in 50x150 C24 treated again on 600 centres. I was going to sheath the roof in 18mm OSB and get a EPDM membrane to cover it. I was considering sheathing the outside of the walls in 11mm OSB and painting it, and put shiplap on the two small front walls. To carry the roof load across the front opening, I was looking at a 6m beam in 50x250 C24 from a specialist supplier, but I am starting to think I may have massively over engineered this or I am missing a trick somewhere. This sort of shows the layout I had envisaged originally. The end game is one end as the BBQ area / outdoor kitchen, and the other end will be for seating, probably one of those L-shaped outdoor sofa things. Any thoughts / ideas / criticisms / cunning plans will be exceedingly gratefully received! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamG Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 My post is not going to be constructive...however keep us updated on your progress please! Maybe one day I can start a project similar to your own (pretty much the same, just rotated 90% anti-clockwise). Only thing I could suggest is to make sure the kitchen end has good natural ventilation to avoid any carbon monoxide build up if your going with charcoal bbq (surely the opening would be enough to eliminate any risk???) Looks great already and looking forward to the finished result!😁👍 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toucs Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 I’m in the process of building a garden room and have been down many rabbit holes in the process. I’m virtually complete externally (just the epdm roof to fit) and then I can move onto the internal fit out. Sorry there’s not many answers below. Firstly, take nothing below as gospel, and speak to your local building control officer as things can differ between local authorities. Sorry if I’m telling you how to suck eggs, it’s just a brain dump and may help others. With a £2k budget it would be a real shame to proceed down a certain route only to have to rectify or remove at a later date. Design: If budget is tight (it looks it ☹️) consider most economical use of materials and the standard sizes these tend to come in. My build is 2.4m deep so just 1 standard sheet wide. My roof joists came in 3.6m lengths, and were fitted as such. I appreciate you’ve had a lovely baseplate already built so possibly a bit late. Consult span tables for the correct joist sizing and spacing (link below). That said I’ve taken liberties with mine as it’s not a high traffic area and I’m not constrained by building control. It’s also a mini warm roof construction so pretty rigid. Have you considered an overhang around the building. You could leave say the top 200mm open for smoke to exit but the overhang would protect from the elements. If building under permitted development, the structure needs to be 2.5m or less (take a look at the planning portal link below). Building regulations normally do not apply if under 15sqm. I ‘think’ an open structure like yours is considered an out build building. Building control can confirm. Introducing building regs may lead you into having to build from ‘substantially non-combustible’ materials, such as blockwork, cement boards etc. due to your proximity to the neighbouring boundaries. If you look at the facebook group below and do a search on the subject you’ll see no single definition of non-combustible and what that means in practice. Hence why I saw speak about your plans to your local BCO. Materials: EPDM is a good system, but the rubber alone would swallow circa £600 of your budget. The OSB sheets would add another £300 nearly. Have you considered corrugated sheets? Access to the rear looks tight, so would you build a 7m wall in one? I built a 6m wall clad with osb then galv sheet it took 4 people to lift and position. Two of them had European powerlifting medals! I think you need a ‘fit and forget’ cladding, say metal sheeting or cement board. I’m not sure painted osb would give you longevity. Again, non-combustibility may be a factor (as noted above). Resources: Oakwood Gardens Self Build Group on Facebook:https://www.facebook.com/groups/3043587272414632/?ref=share A great resource but not always helpful if you just want a ‘single’ voice. Ali Dymock A DIYer who has been there (garden room build). I use this site when I don’t want 101 opinions from a Facebook group. Good info on framing and roofing.https://youtube.com/c/AliDymock Planning portal:https://ecab.planningportal.co.uk/uploads/miniguides/outbuildings/Outbuildings.pdfSpan tables:http://www.alidymock.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Span-Tables-Ali-Dymock.pdf 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blademansw Posted June 22, 2022 Author Share Posted June 22, 2022 @Toucs thats some great info, thank you very much. I have had a brief chat with the building control people, they are quite happy as long as its under 2.5m max height, as its only semi-enclosed they don't seem worried about fire transmission as the only thing behind is more timber fencing then garden. They just seemed concerned that everything marries up with the published span tables and load is carried correctly. Considering what you see garden outbuildings made of, I did chuckle at that lol. After seeing someones galv steel roof, I am actively considering corrugated sheets, I have even started thinking about building the whole thing out of RHS or angle and welding it! I could also put a support post in the middle of the open section, that might make it a lot easier, the concrete base is reinforced so it would take the point load OK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blademansw Posted October 20, 2022 Author Share Posted October 20, 2022 So, months later, I thought I had better come back and update this thread. I had been closely watching timber prices both in the UK and international, and it seemed by September that there were changes afoot. At the start of October I saw a £1.50/m drop on some of the key sizes so I ordered up a big pile from a local timber merchant. I think I saved about £300 on the prices over the summer! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blademansw Posted October 20, 2022 Author Share Posted October 20, 2022 After lots of swearing and grunting, we got the timber out the back, unfortunately, it wasn't delivered till 2pm, and I had booked Thursday and Friday of last week off to get a lot done. After moving the timber out back, I only had a couple of hours of daylight left, but I managed to make a start. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blademansw Posted October 20, 2022 Author Share Posted October 20, 2022 Friday was a washout, due to it raining all day, and I had a delayed start on Saturday morning whilst I waited for everything to dry out a bit. I managed to get the side walls rough framed and the front walls in with the big beam (I went for 50x250 in the end after talking to the timber supplier, that was what they recommended for the span and loading). I lifted the beam in myself, it was shockingly heavy and I nearly sharted! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blademansw Posted October 20, 2022 Author Share Posted October 20, 2022 Sunday rolled around, and thankfully it was nice all day so I managed to get most of the noggins in on the side walls and the back wall rough framed. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blademansw Posted October 20, 2022 Author Share Posted October 20, 2022 As the weather forecast for this weekend coming up wasn't looking very good, I managed to book Tuesday afternoon off as it was a lovely day again. All the rear wall noggins in, and a couple of other structural members added. Plus I managed to get some of the roof joists in. I had a chat with my mate who is a carpenter, and asked him about the best way of cutting in 38 birds mouths on the roof joists, he asked what size they were and then said don't mess about with that, just smack wedges in there with some glue so that has saved a lot of time. Hopefully this weekend I can get the rest of the roof framed in, loads of purlins to cut! Then I will be ordering a load of corrugated sheeting from a cladding company, so it should be finished by the end of November hopefully. Once the electrics are connected that will be amazing - I have 6mm SWA buried so plenty of capacity for future activities 😁 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blademansw Posted October 20, 2022 Author Share Posted October 20, 2022 I am quite proud of myself so far as I am not a tradesman, just a DIY bod, everything fell smack on to the plans I had scribbled out! I do wish I had framed the walls the way the Americans do it rather than noggins though, as it is a hell of a lot quicker. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamG Posted October 20, 2022 Share Posted October 20, 2022 Looking great blademansw!👍 Very inspiring to see it go together and hopefully in the future I can do something similar. For the moment im just measuring out to clad my kamado countertop which will hopefully be finished by summer next year. Thanks for keeping us updated😁👍 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blademansw Posted October 20, 2022 Author Share Posted October 20, 2022 11 minutes ago, AdamG said: Looking great blademansw!👍 Very inspiring to see it go together and hopefully in the future I can do something similar. For the moment im just measuring out to clad my kamado countertop which will hopefully be finished by summer next year. Thanks for keeping us updated😁👍 If you do get around to building something, I recommend this site for doing your calculations --> https://www.blocklayer.com/wall-framing Its got imperial and metric (and skillon / hip roof etc), and it saved me a huge amount of head scratching, especially if you follow the layout properly! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamG Posted October 20, 2022 Share Posted October 20, 2022 I will check that website out, thanks😁👍 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoogl Posted October 24, 2022 Share Posted October 24, 2022 You're going to have a mighty impressive shack. You go right off some people 😊 I can't wait to see the end result. My only question is how effective is it at stopping the rain/snow in winter with that big opening? I'm in Scotland so weather is a right bugger, I've seen the dude over in NI (onlyslaggin) has a similar design so was just curious. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toucs Posted October 24, 2022 Share Posted October 24, 2022 On 10/20/2022 at 8:35 AM, blademansw said: I am quite proud of myself so far as I am not a tradesman, just a DIY bod, everything fell smack on to the plans I had scribbled out! I do wish I had framed the walls the way the Americans do it rather than noggins though, as it is a hell of a lot quicker. You should be super proud mate, that looks excellent. Top marks for aligning the noggins too! Good luck with the remainder of the build. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toucs Posted October 24, 2022 Share Posted October 24, 2022 @hooglhave you seen Jim’s plans (onlyslaggin) for his new house and outside kitchen? Unreal… 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nbr_uk Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 Wow - what a behemoth of a cooking shelter! Looks awesome, bet you can't wait to get the roof on and test it out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoogl Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 (edited) On 10/24/2022 at 10:27 PM, Toucs said: @hooglhave you seen Jim’s plans (onlyslaggin) for his new house and outside kitchen? Unreal… No, I haven't BRB.... Is it on FB/Insta? if so I don't use either of those. If you or someone wouldn't mind sharing pic or two? Edited October 25, 2022 by hoogl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blademansw Posted October 26, 2022 Author Share Posted October 26, 2022 On 10/24/2022 at 10:19 PM, hoogl said: You're going to have a mighty impressive shack. You go right off some people 😊 I can't wait to see the end result. My only question is how effective is it at stopping the rain/snow in winter with that big opening? I'm in Scotland so weather is a right bugger, I've seen the dude over in NI (onlyslaggin) has a similar design so was just curious. Hopefully, it won't be too bad, the prevailing weather generally comes from the back. If its an issue, I might look at a roller shutter door on the front, but that will be over a grand! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blademansw Posted October 26, 2022 Author Share Posted October 26, 2022 So I managed a bit more progress over the weekend (and I took the afternoon off yesterday whilst the weather was nice) Got the rest of the rafters up, and the front and rear purlins/noggins. Managed to get most of the middle purlins in yesterday, ran out of screws with 6 still to fit. Off to Toolstation for some more! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blademansw Posted October 26, 2022 Author Share Posted October 26, 2022 On 10/24/2022 at 10:25 PM, Toucs said: You should be super proud mate, that looks excellent. Top marks for aligning the noggins too! Good luck with the remainder of the build. Thanking you kindly good sir! As I don't have a laser (I have had a DeWalt crossline in my Amazon wish list for ever...), I had to do it old school with a string line. Same on the roof. Pain to set up, but does the same job I guess! Hopefully, I will get the rest of the roof trimmed out this weekend and get the membrane on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toucs Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 @hoogl it’s a modest build… 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blademansw Posted October 26, 2022 Author Share Posted October 26, 2022 On 10/24/2022 at 10:27 PM, Toucs said: @hooglhave you seen Jim’s plans (onlyslaggin) for his new house and outside kitchen? Unreal… Blimey, I just went and looked (not been on insta for ages tbh although I was already following him). Epic! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blademansw Posted November 14, 2022 Author Share Posted November 14, 2022 Managed to get most of the breather membrane on this weekend (ran out of membrane of course), and the final purlins for the roof trims to support the fascia's. After putting in a thousand staples to hold the breather membrane, I really wish I had my compressor so I could use my air stapler! Unfortunately, that is currently located elsewhere at the moment due to reasons I shall not go into here! Oh my aching hand 😒 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blademansw Posted April 19, 2023 Author Share Posted April 19, 2023 Thought it was time for some more updates - the steel sheeting was delivered at the beginning of December, and I planned to get it all on over Xmas. Unfortunately, it rained EVERY. SINGLE. DAY so that idea fell flat on its face. It wasn't until February when we had a couple of dry days without high winds so I could at least get the roof sheeting on: Then of course.. the miserable weather at the weekends came back, and the opportunity didn't present itself until Easter Friday and Saturday to get some more work done. Fascia and roof gable end covers going on: Last job on Easter Saturday was fitting the soffits to the front - I left the back soffit to later as it was quite fiddly and I couldn't face it! Last weekend we had some decent weather here again, so it was time to crack on with the wall sheeting: Lots of cuts on those side panels - luckily I had bought a nibbler attachment for my drill after trimming one of the roof sheets with hand shears (Oh my aching hand). Works well, but it is awkward to keep the cuts straight on the corrugated steel. Hopefully, I can get the remaining panels on this weekend and fit the corner cover pieces (same material as the roof gable end covers). Then I have to decide what to do inside on the walls, leaning towards 9mm OSB 3, treated with 5 star preservative and painted with exterior grade paint. Anyone have any thoughts on that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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