fife newbie

[andya]

Hi, 

new to this site but have been smoking for 5 or so years, glad to see that its getting more popular north of the border these days ( 5 years of interspersed and inconsistent smoker use so still very much new and willing to learn)

other activiies inc shooting and stalking so anyone with the know how for doing right by some venison ? please drop me a mail :)

Andy

[Smokin Monkey]

Hi Andy, welcome to the forum. Even where I live in the Midlands is too far North for most BBQ Events!

Venison is a very lean meat, do you make your own sausages etc?

 

[andya]

Hi,

Thanks for the welcome,

I mostly give the venison away believe it or not ! when i have an excess its mostly burgers as friends and colleagues are always lined up for them, i use my own burger mix, well i say my own ! it's based on a commercial butchers "angus" burger mix, then i add more onion powder, paprika , onion flakes and tomato powder, i have had people say its the best burger the ever tasted, so as i dont actually eat venison myself i will have to go with their comments,  one thing i do know as to why some dont like venison is that it must be 100% hung for the correct period of time and its quite a scientific process that depends on the ambient heat during the hanging, cleaned and hung correctly and you can remove the majority of the game i ness  from it

I have toyed with sausage making as i have the mincer and the attachments but to be honest as i'm not a venison fan, the extra time involved means it has not happened yet, maybe when i get a cold smoke tray this next week it might inspire me to get some done and get them cold smoked too ( just not a fan of preservatives and nitrates either ) anyone have any idea if numerous cold smokes over a few days and a semi dehydration of the sausage would be safe for long term storage and eating without the nitrates/preservatives ?

[Smokin Monkey]

@Wade will be able to give you some advice on the last part of your post.

[Wade]

10 hours ago, andya said:

I have toyed with sausage making as i have the mincer and the attachments but to be honest as i'm not a venison fan, the extra time involved means it has not happened yet, maybe when i get a cold smoke tray this next week it might inspire me to get some done and get them cold smoked too ( just not a fan of preservatives and nitrates either ) anyone have any idea if numerous cold smokes over a few days and a semi dehydration of the sausage would be safe for long term storage and eating without the nitrates/preservatives ?

Hi Andy and welcome to the forum

The requirement for preservative will depend on the type of sausage that you are making.

If you are making a fresh sausage that will be eaten within a few days then this will not require the adding of any Nitrate/Nitrite preservative. This method though relies on the sausages being smoked as they are being cooked (hot smoking) or first cooked (usually poached) and then being smoked. This type of sausage will still need to be treated as fresh though and stored chilled and eaten within a week - unless they are frozen.

If you are making an air dried sausage (e.g. salami or polish sausage) for longer term storage then you will need to add some kind of preservative. In addition to salt this is usually Nitrite and often Nitrate - but the curing can be achieved by reducing the pH (making it more acidic) using a lactobaccillus culture. There are a lot of good recipes out there for air dried sausage and I can point you to some if that would help.

In order to rely solely on dehydration to preserve the meat you would need to reduce the water activity to a point where it is approaching the consistency of Jerky. This may not be what you are wanting to achieve.

You can smoke the raw meat for short periods of time (up to 4 hours) providing it is kept below 8 C - though the closer to 4 C the better. This is easier to achieve in the winter but can prove a challenge now that the weather has warmed up. It would also help if the meat had first been salt cured before smoking in order to minimise any surface bacteria. Once smoked the meat would still need to be treated as fresh and used within a short period of time - or preserved using additional steps.

There is a lot of misconception when it comes to the use of Nitrate/Nitrite in curing. Firstly the important factor is the NitrIte as this is the part that actually has the preservative effect. If NitrAte is also added then its only role is to be broken down over a period of time into Nitrite in order to keep the Nitrite levels topped up. If you are also taking other steps to cure the meat (e.g. dehydration, increasing acidity, adding salt) then in many recipes you can omit the Nitrate altogether. In products like bacon the use of Nitrate is becoming less common. Nitrate use in commercial bacon has actually been banned in the USA and is highly discouraged by the EU. I never use Nitrate in any of the bacon that I make.
Much of the bad press for Nitrate has resulted from the comparatively high levels that were in some "traditional" recipes, however these days the amount of Nitrate present in cured meat is usually less than is found in many fresh vegetables. You should not feel uncomfortable using the relatively small amounts that are used - especially when you are in control of the cure at home. The levels you would be using would be in the region of 50-150 mg per Kg of meat.

Let us know how you get on 

[andya]

Hey Wade, 

Thanks for that comprehensive reply☺️

i'd certainly like to hear more on the lactobaccillus culture for curing as i make my own yoghurt by the litre/s every week (those easy yo thermos systems also work without the expensive pre mixed packets they sell ?) i have often used it to marinate and tenderise meat, and yes depending on the specific culture and the time it is cultured for ? it can become very acidic. ( i just never thought of it as a cure before today) so any guidance would be much appreciated

Cheers

 

[Wade]

Hi Andy

When lactobacillus is used it will give the resulting sausage an acidic tang - it is this that gives salami style sausage its characteristic sharp taste. Your yogurt will typically have a pH of about 4.4 which is about right for controlling most pathogenic bacteria (pH 4 to pH 5). When you combine the reduction in pH with a reduction in water activity then both factors work together to enhance the inhibition of bacterial growth. If you are into a bit of background reading here is a good article that you may find interesting

How water activity and pH work together to control microbial growth

Most people tend to use a Bactoferm type culture which is fast growing and designed to reduce the pH of the meat to about 5 within three to four days. Some do use yogurt culture instead to add acidity and get good results. I think that if you want flavour consistency between batches then you would use a commercial culture  but if you don't mind some batch variation then you can use live yogurt. I have not used yogurt myself but advice I have read is that you only need about a teaspoon of the yogurt and give the bacteria some time to wake up and reproduce in half a glass of bottled water with a pinch of dextrose or ordinary sugar. Keep it in room temperature for 6-12 hours before adding it to the meat. It should not give the resulting sausage a yoghurty taste. 

Here is a link to a sausage making forum that discusses the use of yogurt. This site is a great resource for sausage making

https://forum.sausagemaking.org/viewtopic.php?t=6381&highlight=yogurt

If you are looking to try a commercial lactobacillus culture here are a couple of suppliers

https://www.weschenfelder.co.uk/bessastart-salami-culture.html - I have used this successfully several times

http://www.sausagemaking.org/acatalog/Cultures.html - a selection of different cultures available.

Cheers, Wade

[andya]

Thanks Wade,

i will certainly have a read up after work today.

Cheers, Andy