Wade

21 hours ago, paul6057 said:

One thing that I was reading today was about whether you should remove bark from wood before using it for smoking. I was thinking about this because this wood comes with the bark on. I was reading this blog:

https://www.smokinlicious.com/blog/to-bark-or-not/

I've always removed the bark where I can, but never really had a good reason for doing that, other than I thought that it could create a bit more acrid smoke. The interesting piece in this blog (I haven't validated with other sources so who knows how correct this is, but it sounds legit), suggests that the bark absorbs and stores pollutants, and so if you smoke with the bark on, as the wood burns, it could potentially taint your food.

Anyone else had any thoughts on this one way or another?

The bark will not usually cause a problem. The general rule of thumb is that if it pulls off easily then discard it - if not then leave it on.

On 6/27/2020 at 2:28 PM, Kevin Finnigan said:

Just bought the Fornetto Razzo Modular 18" Vertical Bullet Smoker any advice for a newbie 

Hi Kevin - This is a fairly new brand of bullet smoker to hit the UK market. It is very similar to the ProQ Frontier/Elite and All advice on using these will also be appropriate for the Fornetto. If you are new to smoking then I congratulate you on selecting a bullet smoker as these are very easy to use and are the type of smoker that are used widely in competition BBQ.

The first think to remember is that you need to control the heat of the coals in the fire basket right from the beginning. Unlike a BBQ grill (where you start off with a chimney full of hot coals) for the bullet smokers you place mainly unlit charcoal/briquettes in the fire basket and only 9 or 10 fully lit ones in the centre.

Keep the top vents open at all times. Open the bottom vents fully. Monitor the temperature until it reaches about 2/3 of where you need it to be and then start to close down the bottom vents. As the temperature approaches the desired temperature close down the bottom vents further until it stabilises where you need it. It is likely that the bottom vents will end up ALMOST completely closed - but they should not be closed completely. The charcoal/briquettes will then continue to burn slowly generating just enough heat to keep the smoker at the required temperature. One load of good quality briquettes in the fire basket is likely to last 8+ hours.

Use the temperature gauge in the lid as a guide only - they are notoriously inaccurate. It would be worth you investing in a twin probe digital BBQ thermometer - they are not expensive.

While you are getting used to the temperature control, start by smoking something inexpensive and forgiving. A chicken or a pack of sausages are great - or if you feel more adventurous a rack of meaty ribs.

Great to have you on the Forum and don't forget - we like will love to see your photos 

We remain optimistic but are also preparing for the worst

1 hour ago, Justin said:

ok looking at youtube they are the same thing  different brand names?

Where did you see that Justin? The top air vents look different and so do the hinges. Also the bottom legs.

They are very similar yes though there are subtle differences. I guess it is tough to design a bullet smoker that would look much different. The Napoleon 300 and the ProQ Excel are similar sizes and there is only about £15 pounds difference in the RRP so it will all come down to the build quality. From the video it looks as if the quality of the Napoleon is quite good but you can only tell after having used it for a while. The ProQ Excel does have reinforced legs, which the AS300 does not. It is probably a case of you pay your money and make your choice...

What are you trying to cook? Are you wanting low-and slow or more of a smoke roast? Or maybe you are grilling. Unfortunately the Tennessee is really designed for grilling (what the Americans call "broiling") however by ensuring that the ash tray has a good seal and really closing the vent down you should be able to get some temperature control. 

You have not said how many coals you are using and how fast they are burning, however I get the idea that they are burning much faster than you are expecting. In the Tennessee for the coals to be burning that fast the heat can only be going upwards into the cooking chamber. What was the temperature in your cooking chamber?

If you find that even with the vents almost closed the coals are still racing away, try using some high temperature silicone grease under the air vent and/or sealing part of the air vent completely with aluminium tape. The important think is to get that air flow over the coals as controllable as possible.

I get most of my spices from them too. I have always found them to be good.

Hi Deano and welcome. Yes, many start with offsets and the lower end models can take a lot of mods. Once you have mastered the vertical smoker you will realise just how much additional time and effort the offsets are. With the Fornetto you should find the temperature in the cooking chamber much more even and easier to maintain.

Cheers, Wade

Well it seems that people are back out fishing in force. This is my third batch of Trout from local farmers since the self-isolation rules were relaxed

I am in the no-foil camp - but I am not expecting to cook food in my water pan.

Yep - No point seasoning repeatedly. The initial season is mostly done to burn off any manufacturing residue.

On 6/7/2020 at 10:14 AM, Smokin Monkey said:

 can get them from Asda, about £2.00 a bag.

This is what @smokeyjoe was on about, most of the guys who attend the BBQ/Tailgate Weekends use these to get Charcoal started.

Yes, these are cheap and cheerful and do a great job lighting a chimney

15 hours ago, Pawel said:

Got my first try today. 

Starting the briquettes in chimney give a lot of smoke, I wonder how to minimise that?

All briquettes will give off some smoke when they are first lit. As a rule of thumb, the better quality the briquette the less smoke they will produce. Some coconut briquettes can also give off a lot of smoke.

15 hours ago, Pawel said:

Got my first try today. 

Starting the briquettes in chimney give a lot of smoke, I wonder how to minimise that? It is atvthe first stage of starting it up. Got full (up to.max line) chimney with brisket, and rest as a minion method in smoker (used in total around 4kg of briquette). After around 40-50min, i put the water in and had to close the bottom vents. Barely managed to get temp just under 150C ( cloudy day with breeze, 15C outside). During cooking minimum temp I managed to obtain was about 120-130C. 

You mentioned that first few runs may the temperature be a bit high. I am thinking about sealing bottom vents to have more control over the oxygen intake.

Also can you advise what to do to reduce the smoke going out to the minimum? Don't want that much smoke around the house.. I found that when all briquette was lite, and wood burnt out, temp was fine and no smoke of the smoker.

It is quite normal to have the bottom air vents almost completely closed to maintain low smoking temperatures of 110-120 C. It is also easier to increase the temperature than it is to bring it back down. It is important to keep a close watch on the temperature at the beginning. As it begins to rise and reaches about 2/3 of target temperature then gradually start to close the vents. If you have the vents almost closed and it continues to rise then you have either started off with too many lit briquettes or (most likely) the air vents are not sufficiently sealing.

15 hours ago, Pawel said:

You mentioned that first few runs may the temperature be a bit high. I am thinking about sealing bottom vents to have more control over the oxygen intake.

Also can you advise what to do to reduce the smoke going out to the minimum? Don't want that much smoke around the house.. I found that when all briquette was lite, and wood burnt out, temp was fine and no smoke of the smoker.

I am thinking about 3 things to improve it

1. As mentioned, sealed with high temp silicone bottom vents

2. Use bigger wood chunks ( one I got are the small chips)

3. Any other less smoking coal/briquette?

Seen smokeless briquettes at the shop, not sure if any use of them in the smoker, looks like it's for indoor stove..

If the BigK briquettes are producing too much smoke then try either Weber briquettes or Heat Beads. Either of these should produce less smoke.

When smoking meat you will always get some smoke however you are aiming for a thin blue smoke that is almost invisible. Larger chunks of wood will help - though even these will cause some smoke when they are first added. Do not soak your chips or chunks. You are just wasting energy from the coals waiting for the water to evaporate before they start to burn and produce the smoke that you want.

Don't use the smokeless fuel unless it specifically says it is for BBQs. Yes they are usually only for stoves/fires.

On 5/30/2020 at 11:42 PM, Pawel said:

So I assembled my new smoker, Barbecook Oskar M. Looks solid, but.. When fitting all air vents (3 intake, 1 out at the top lid), they are build of 2 plates. First one is lining to the body of smoker, second rotate over it to adjust the vents. The first one does not fit tight to the body, as looks like pressed fitting place at body is still a bit round. What would you recommend to seal it? The simpliest solution I was thinking of is just a hi temp silicone. Or just give it a go and see how it behave? I'd say that gaps are bad..

High temperature silicone works well

I use the Cookshack Hickory from The American BBQ Company and I find them perfect for my needs. They are a blend of Hickory and oak and they give a good balanced flavour and long burn time.

Hi Pawel. We are here to help 

There are a number of questions here...

5 hours ago, Pawel said:

There is a lot of  info on Polish blogs (I'm Polish), but all of it explain rather cold smoking in barrel type smokers, preferably witch tunnel. What I read, if eg. they smoke ham, they keep it in brine for like 2 weeks, and after smoking it has to be either treated in boiled water (80-100C), or rised temp at the end  of smoking, as ham will be raw inside (smoking in around 45C for 2 days). 

For making smoked ham it is a 2 stage process as you say. You firstly need to cure the pork and after that you can optionally smoke it. The method will also vary depending on whether you are trying to produce an air-dried (Parma style) ham or a cooked ham. From your description it looks as if you are talking about producing a cooked ham.

A pork leg or shoulder is a large chunk of meat and so if you add a dry cure to the surface or use an immersion brine it will take time for it to reach the centre. If the joint still has the bone in it can take long enough for spoilage to occur around the bone and you get something called "sour bone". Like bacon, ham can be either dry cured or immersion/injection cured. The dry cure will reduce the water content of the ham but immersion/injection will increase the water content - usually by up to 10%. If you are using an immersion cure then yes you would need to leave it in the bucket for up to 14 days - maybe longer for very large joints. For the larger joints it is often better to injection cure. The cure in both cases would be different though:

• For the immersion cure you would weigh the meat AND the amount of water used in the cure, and then calculate the amount of salt, sugar, Nitrite etc. that needs to be added. You would then leave the meat immersed in the cure until it has fully penetrated (typically 10-14 days).
• For the injection cure you would usually weigh the meat and use a weight of water that is 10% that of the meat.to make the brine. You then inject the brine evenly into the meat - paying careful attention to ensure it is is also injected around the bone. You then leave the meat for a few days in the fridge to allow it to diffuse evenly inside. This helps prevent the appearance of sour bone. Most commercially bought ham/bacon is cured by injecting the brine.

At this point the ham is not cooked. You then decide how you want to cook it. You can then optionally cold smoke it for up to 24 hours before cooking or you can smoke roast it in the smoker at ~150 C (until it reaches 74 C internal). You can also do a combination of both. It sounds like the method you have seen above actually boils the ham after it has been cold smoked for a while. If you do cold smoke it first, wrap it in clingfilm (or vac pack) and leave it in the fridge for several days before cooking to allow the smoke flavour to diffuse into the meat.

You mention about smoking it a 45 C for 2 days before then boiling it. I know that the method of producing some traditional local products will vary a lot. You need to remember though that not all "traditional" methods are safe - especially when you see them on amateur blogs where there isn't anyone to double check that they are safe.

5 hours ago, Pawel said:

Is it possible to cold smoke in bullet smoker? Do I need a cold smoke device - the spiral tray with wood dust, to do it, or just briquettes and nearly closed vents will do?

The easiest ways to cold smoke in the bullet smoker are to use either a maze pellet smoke generator from BBQ Gourmet or or a sawdust generator from ProQ. For a bullet smoker you are better off with the ProQ as it produces less heat. Briquettes will produce too much heat and not enough smoke.
When cold smoking you must leave the top vents fully open as the smoking relies on smoke passing over the food and not trapped around it. If you try to trap the smoke you will get the heave smoke condensing on the food and it can taste of tar.
Sometimes the cold smoke generator can still produce too much heat - especially on hot days. If it does then you can just leave the water bowl in the smoker and fill it with cold water.

5 hours ago, Pawel said:

What I read as well, after smoking - rest the meat wrapped, in the fridge, so juices stay preserved  inside. Should I wrapnit in the aluminium foil? (Cling film will melt if in contact with hot food, but you can't put hot food to fridge anyway.

After hot smoking leave the meat to rest for about half an hour wrapped in foil before slicing/pulling so that the juices can be reabsorbed. For most cold smoked foods you should wrap in clingfilm or vac pack.

5 hours ago, Pawel said:

Will try with chicken, fish and ribs as easiest for a start. Lockdown for fishing supposed to be lifted this week, and mackerel season on the brink! Plus some trout 😊 want to smoke the whole fish, this smoker has a hanging basket with hooks for that.

For cold smoking trout this thread could help

5 hours ago, Pawel said:

Bullet smoker has 2 levels of trays. Can I use both when smoking, or just the top one is ok?

Yes you can use both. 

5 hours ago, Pawel said:

You mentioned different temperatures for different meats. What is the safe temperature overall for food safety? I work in the kitchen, and the H&S say that cook food meant to reach  above 82-84C once when cooked, and if hot holding it  is 62C. But again, pizza has to reach only 74C when comes out of the oven.. Are the temperatures you provided for different meats are safe to eat without further preparations?

If you work in an NHS kitchen you may be catering for more vulnerable people and so you may be required by your management to use higher cooking temperatures than are usually recognised as being safe. While you are at work you should comply with they the minimum temperatures that they have set.

Here is a link to a good temperature cooking reference for meat.
Meat Temperatures: The Quick Guide

I hope this helps

Hi Pawel and welcome to the forum

7 hours ago, Pawel said:

But to the point. I am digging for a few days now how to prepare and smoke meat. All I see for bullet smokers is no one cure meat, just rub with salt/spices. So it is more like BBQ grill than proper smoking. I know it is a hot smoking, not cold one. I now old school is to marinate in brine for hours/days, and even inject the brine in. If not, meat would not be salty.

Cold smoking is usually done up to 30 C and Hot smoking usually begins at 80 C. You will be able to do both with your Barbecook

Cold smoking will be for things like cured fish, bacon, cheese, nuts, salt etc. - foods that are low risk or which have been previously cured
Hot smoking at ~80 C is generally for fish - where you are looking to set the proteins in the fish gently 
Hot smoking from 110 C - 125 C is usually called low-and-slow and is used for meats that need long slow cooking in order to break down their collagen fibres.
Hot smoking from ~150 C upwards is usually called smoke roasting and is used for meats that do not need long cooking times

When hot smoking meats there are general guidelines for each meat however they are not definitive. For example you would not usually smoke roast a whole brisket but mince it and turn it into a burger then you cook it hot and fast. You can cook a chicken low-and slow however it can result in the meat becoming pink so they are mostly cooked hotter at ~150 C+. Pork loin you can cook either low-and-slow or hot roast.

Whether you use a rub, brine or inject really depends on what you are cooking, what you are trying to achieve and your own personal preferences. A brisket is a good example - it is a comparatively thin meat (unless you are cooking a large whole packer brisket) and many will only apply a surface rub several hours before smoking as the flavour has time to penetrate. With this you get a combination of the natural flavour of the meat and the applied spices. Some will immersion brine to add different flavours and others will inject. Injections are usually a combination of flavours and also meat tenderising agents, such as pineapple juice. When injecting you need to be careful that you do not add TOO MUCH flavour - if you are trying to cook a good brisket then you do not want the meat to end up tasting like pastrami (unless that is what you are trying to make) or in extreme cases tasting like a stock cube. When competition cooking with KCBS the judges will actually mark you down for your brisket if what you have produced tastes like pastrami. With larger joints (like Pork leg or shoulder) it takes longer for the flavours to penetrate and so you may want to injection brine. If you are smoking a pork shoulder to be used as pulled pork it could depend on whether it is on or off the bone. If it is bone-in then the flavour has a long way to go to get to the centre. If it is boned then your can apply your flavour to both the inside and outside surfaces.

The saltiness is completely up to you whether you are using rub, immersion brine or injecting. When making your brine calculate the salt content - don't just add it by eye.You are looking to create a brine that is no more than 2.5% w/w salt (peoples tastes vary). Once inside the meat the salt isn't going anywhere and so you will be eating it. A good rule of thumb is to taste the brine before you inject or immerse with it. If it tastes too salty then you will end up with salty meat.

7 hours ago, Pawel said:

And for second one, how do you judge when meat is ready? Just checking the meat temp, when it reach about 90C? Can you help and direct to guidances how to properly smoke? Looking to smoke fish,  chicken, ribs, some ham for a start.

Yes, you should tell when the meat is ready by the temperature - but this temperature depends on the meat. If you are smoking something like chicken then it needs to get up to ~74 C to get the combination of looking cooked and retaining juice. A beef joint will only need to get up to ~60 C - dependant on how you like your beef. Pork shoulder for pulled pork needs to get up to ~90 C.
Whether it is done to the way you like depends on a combination of temperature and visual. If you like a nice firm bark on your pulled pork or crispy skin on your chicken you may need to adjust the smoker temperature even once the meat has reached the required temperature.

You specifically mentioned fish. This is something that needs to be hot smoked slowly (in order to set the proteins without having them bubble out as white foam) and it needs to get to an internal temperature of between 64 C - 70 C. The exact method will vary slightly depending on the size of fish and whether they are whole or filleted. They will need to be brined (~20%) before smoking and as a general rule, initially smoke at ~50 C for about 30 minutes and then raise the temperature up to 80 C for about 1.5 to 2 hours dependant on size. Allow to cool and then wrap.

Whole mackerel being smoked.

@Icefeveris not keen on his bacon smoked - so once it has been rinsed and dried, that is the time to smoke - 8-24 hours depending on the smokiness you prefer. After that vac pack and leave for 4-5 days in the fridge before freezing.

Ice prefers his bacon green (unsmoked) but others prefer smoked. Both are good - it just depends on you personal preference.

23 minutes ago, Skagg2000 said:

So it's now de boned & skin removed, as you say @Wade minimal waste which was good. I've use some of Surfy's curing mix & it's now sat in the fridge vac packed. 

Roll on 14 days or so!

If this goes well I'll be trying back bacon next.

Cheers n Gone Nick

I always buy a whole belly with skin on and bone in as it works out more cost-effective. Before I bought some decent boning knives I would get the butcher to skin and bone it for me - but with some good sharp knives it now only takes a few minutes. The bones and trimmings are good for stock.

 Although they may need some individual attention while cooking - get them in together and help save the planet 🗻🌴

It is important though  to remember that we eat with our eyes as well as out taste - so if you think the "pink" chicken meat is not safe to eat then you probably wont enjoy eating it.

I too am qualified to supervise food hygiene in the catering industry and was just advising you of the current standards. It is the temperature that is critical and not the colour. There is a big difference between the standard catering cooked roast chicken (usually roasted hot and fast) and smaller young chicken that is roasted low-and slow. Providing the chicken has reached at least 64 C then it is actually safe to eat - even if it still looks under cooked. The best compromise between appearance and juiciness though is around 74 C. Trust your thermometer.

If you don't have a pionty sharp (sorry about the technical term 😁) boning knife to cut between the ribs then just use a sharp flat knife to cut underneath the ribs. You should only end up wasting a little meat between each rib but this can be cut out afterwards and used for other things. When you get to the cartilage don't forger that they angle quite sharply at the edge. They are worth getting out unless you don't mind cutting them out of the bacon after it has been cured and sliced.

5 minutes ago, BigT70 said:

and the chicken I let go for 4 and wrapped (tin foil) and put it back in for an hour as it was pink a little.

Do not be too paranoid about the chicken meat appearing to be a little pink around the joints so long as the chicken juices are running clear. Low and slow cooking, in combination with the young age of supermarket chickens, often leads to the meat around the joints becoming/remaining pink. Trust the thermometer. Once the chicken meat has reached 64 C then it is safe to eat. Ideally you should leave it to get to ~74C to give you that balance between not looking under cooked and maximum juiciness.

23 hours ago, Scott T said:

Has anyone ever cooked frozen, supermarket bought, chicken wings in an offset smoker. Should they be thawed overnight, before putting on the smoker. The wings my mrs bought are not flavoured, just plain. 

Defrost them by placing them in the fridge overnight ready for the day they are needed. That is the Food Standards Agency recommended thawing method. After that add any marinade and leave them in in the fridge for 3 or 4 hours to flavour. Once cooked you will not be able to tell whether they were fresh or frozen.