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16 minutes ago, Justin said:

Wrap in foil then place in coolbox and it will keep warm for a couple hours. gives flexibility to service

Thanks, will do.

Haven't used our coolbox in a while – it's just got a new use 😀

1 hour ago, ExclusiveBBQ said:

Thanks for the tips. Do you notice much difference with injecting?

Hello, Mr Exclusive (don't know your name, sorry!) 

With your first brisket, did you let it cool before putting in the coolbox?

5 minutes ago, Justin said:

Right, meaty they are not. Hence  it was an amuse bouche.

 

😂

Am sure I saw one being prepared by a chef and it looked like you get about two bites out of it, that's it!

Remind me - did you cool the brisket for a while before putting in the coolbox?

Meat & Cleaver were great - the order fell just a couple of quid below the free delivery charge, but they waived it anyway 😀

It's a whopper – 7kg – and they offered to cut it down to 5kg, but I thought I'd try a beast first up, just to see how it goes (we'll be eating leftovers all next week, most likely…)

Can't wait to get started! 

23 hours ago, Justin said:

It is all meat mate. I have had it before in Germany in a restaurant, though they made a smoked ragu out of it as an amuse bouche...

You'd need a few of them, though, wouldn't you? 😁

11 minutes ago, Simon said:

Has anyone looked into whether you can cook British brisket the same way as US? From what’s been put on this thread I wouldn’t want to support a practice that allows the animals to be kept in those conditions. 

Without getting on my soapbox, it does puzzle me why people get so hot under the collar about things like foie gras when they are happy to buy a chicken for three quid that's never seen the light of day and is probably covered in ammonia burns and scratchmarks from other chickens weeing all over it and fighting etc. But perhaps that's a discussion for another thread! 😁

27 minutes ago, Simon said:

That could be a video for you there. 

Definitely!
The restaurant I tried them side-by-side at was the New Street Grill just off Liverpool Street.
Just had a look at their website, and they still offer both (I was there about 5-6 years ago):

I emailed them yesterday and they replied the same evening! Going to get mine delivered on Friday, then will trim it and apply the rub Fri evening, then get it on the smoker late on Saturday evening. I won't be getting up at 3am on Sunday morning (alas), but if I use briquettes I'm confident the temp will be fine. Then will check early on Sunday, add a load more fuel if need be and hopefully will be cooked by 1pm, then after resting etc, serve at 5 (but I realise I could be several hours out!)

10 hours ago, Guitarbloke said:

I did struggle to put the full water pan into the Frontier directly over the lit coals, and ended up sloshing a load over the charcoal basket and down into the base of the bbq...🙄 

I put the sections on top of the coals once they're ready, add the water pan, then use a watering can filled with warm/hot water from the tap to fill the pan up from the external door - seems to work OK.

10 hours ago, Guitarbloke said:

Do you guys still cook in the rain?  Does it affect temps?

 

The first couple of times I used my Frontier was our lovely weather in early June, where it chucked it down most days – even had a hailstorm one afternoon! The temperature plummeted after a few minutes of that, down to about 125-150 from 250-275. So now I use an old fishing umbrella that I slot into a parasol base which protects my smoker from the rain but it's still high enough above it to let the smoke circulate. 

Nice video – you clearly have a very good eye for production etc – it's nicely shot.

I'm going to try brisket for the first time next weekend – I looked on Meat and Cleaver's site, but a whole brisket wasn't on there – did you have to call them to ask for it specially?

I think I'll start it off on Sat evening, then get up early on Sunday and restoke the coals – I think it's going to need 12-16 hrs from what I've read on here (I have a ProQ Frontier Elite).

5 hours ago, Guitarbloke said:

Apologies for the utterly shameless plug, but I couldn't resist - if you're a fan of live music (70s-80s rock) my band will be playing at The Goat in Berkhamsted on the 20th!  

 

Gutted, but I'm away that day. Do like The Goat, though - ended up there for our works Christmas do - carnage! 😄 

Welcome @epangelia2k2 – I'm just down the road (ish) in Berkhamsted. This site has given me a stack of useful advice so far – some pretty clued-up BBQers here 😋

On 6/25/2019 at 9:35 AM, Icefever said:

When I was setting up the frontier on Sunday I put a layer of foil in the bottom to catch most of the ash, makes it easier to clean. Now one of the bottom daisy wheel vents has been a little loose and I noticed that where two of the vents are pop rivets one is a bolt & nut. I tightened it and this got me thinking ...why...then I thought maybe it's for the Smartfire?? 

Ice.

Ahhhhh! I wondered exactly that when setting my Frontier up! 😄

49 minutes ago, ExclusiveBBQ said:

That seems to be the point... The majority of USA beef comes from cows fed on grain because that's the quickest way to fatten them up. The resulting meat has a high fat content (measured by the marbling) and therefore gets graded highly by the USDA. From what I can tell, this message gets 'lost in translation' because it's thought that a piece of meat with a high amount of fat = the cow lived a generally good life, but that's not always the case.

So I guess my next question is: is it possible for British beef to have the same sort of marbling (specifically the brisket) as an American cow that's pumped full of corn and steroids? 😂

There's another part of the book that talks about Japanese wagyu beef, and while it has the most impressive marbling of any beef they've ever tried, they said when they tasted it, you get this glorious mouth-coating fattiness, but the flavour dies away really quickly, and they were rather unimpressed. 

31 minutes ago, Mack said:

That's absolute nonsense! We are the company that supplies our dealers, sometimes we drop-ship, but we didn't bullsh** them at any time. I won't go into the reasons for the delay, but it definitely wasn't on our side.

Fair enough. Only passing on what they told me!

Right, here are some pearls of wisdom about the merits of grass-fed beef vs corn-fed beef from the Hawksmoor book that I've summarised  (the book is excellent, btw – loads of great recipes and a great drinks section). I can't vouch for the accuracy of what they say, but I'd be surprised if it was wide of the mark. Of course, they're not going to criticise their own product, but I'd be very interested to hear what other forumers think.

---

They visit Tim Wilson's farm in North Yorkshire. The cows graze on grass made up of several old-fashioned varieties that would have grown in the area 100 years ago. They say most farms use a cheap, reliable Italian rye grass mix, but this particular farm uses red and white clover, meadow fescue, chicory, cock's-foot and Yorkshire fog. 

In the States, most cattle spend their days eating dried and flaked GM corn mixed with high-protein supplements. 

They quote Mark Schatzker's Steak book, in which he describes opening his car door and being greeted by "the olfactory wallop of 32,000 defecating cattle", with a strong wind containing "fecal dust". "They were crowded together, 50,000 of them, in numbers and concentration you wouldn't ever find in nature, standing in textbook filth next to an open-air sewage lagoon, eating a powdery substance [flaked corn] that was dispensed by a truck."

The cattle munch away, putting on weight very quickly, and this rapid weight gain is the key to the high levels of intra-muscular fat (ie, marbling) that the USDA looks for when grading meat.

The Hawksmoor cattle are sent to slaughter after 30 months or so, while in the States it's usually 12-14 months, and after growth hormones are administered to help them gain huge amounts of muscle mass.

A cow's digestive system isn't designed to cope with corn, especially not in the quantities they eat on cattle farms, so antibiotics are regularly given to prevent their guts and livers from failing – cattle consume 70% of all antibiotics administered in the US.

They quote from Harold McGee's McGee on Food and Cooking, who says that grass, a living leafy plant, is high in "odorous substances". Dried corn isn't, not does it contain many nutrients, whereas grass is rich in Vitamin B, as well as Vitamin E and beta-carotene.

As a result, grass-fed beef has a decent level of Omega 3 fatty acids, whereas American beef may contain traces of antibiotics, hormones and growth promoters, which is why it's illegal to import it directly to the UK (it has to be done via Ireland or Holland).

They say that corn-fed beef is rather one-dimensional, whereas grass-fed is more rounded and complex, and while they've enjoyed some corn-fed steaks, most have disappointed, with many "bland and oily with an unsatisfyingly mushy texture", which might explain why many Americans often reach for the steak sauce. 

They also bemoan the fact that in Argentina, feedlots are now the norm, and after the 2001 economic crash there, "swathes of lush, fertile pasture [were] converted into soya bean and corn crops, which at the time were fetching a good price on the global market. Cattle were diverted to poorer grazing land and more and more were herded into giant feedlots to gorge on dried flaked corn. Up until 1990, all Argentinian beef was grass-fed, but by 2009, 75% of beef came from feedlots…and by 2011, the Argentina Independent said it was almost impossible to buy grass-fed beef in the country." 

They add that just because beef is grass-fed, it doesn't automatically make it good. As grass is a living plant, there are many variables that determine its nutritional value, such as the varieties planted, the location, the temperature, the time of year and the soil etc. Some pastures will be missing minerals and nutrients if the land was previously used for intensive farming – and they say this is why it's very difficult to rear cattle on grass in many areas of the US. 

Also, in winter, the cows at the Yorkshire farm are in the barn eating hay and "haylage" (halfway between hay and silage), and in the final six weeks of their lives, they do eat some grain in the form of barley (along with peas, broad beans, mixed with a little molasses) – the farmer says this is to ensure they put down a thick layer of backfat, which is essential if the carcasses are going to be hung for a decent amount of time. 

Oh, and regarding the USDA classification: they say it was devised by cattlemen in the Midwest in the 1920s during an agricultural recession, in an effort to boost demand. They managed to persuade the country that "the muscular tissues of animals are made tender and fully flavoured only by the presence of plenty of fat".

---

As I mentioned before, I did try both types side by side at a steak restaurant in London a few years ago. I was expecting both to be great, but I found the grass-fed vastly superior. The corn-fed steak had a soft, almost buttery texture, but it just lacked a beefy oomph that I love with good steaks I've had (in the UK). The restaurant manager said he personally preferred the corn-fed, so I guess it's just matter of taste. And I know some people don't like their meat to have that full-on "meaty" (for want of a better word) taste. Really good pork, for example, does have that slightly funky, farmyard whiff to it (!) which some/many people don't like, and obviously offal isn't to all tastes. But let me know what you think 😀

10 hours ago, ExclusiveBBQ said:

Would be really interested in seeing that section! 

OK, will have a read tonight and write up the main points.

4 minutes ago, Smokin Monkey said:

If copying to the Forum, please quote source, copyright and all that. Sorry to be the Forum 

Don't worry, I'll just precis it. Easier.

Is it true that all US beef is corn-fed and all British beef is grass-fed? 

I tried both at the New St Grill nr Liverpool Street, and while the corn-fed was tender, it had way less flavour than the grass-fed. 

There's a section in the Hawksmoor cookbook that explains the difference between the two, and it's rather illuminating... Will post it on here when I have a sec 

Subscribed! 😀

Yes, I've seen that. Damn, the brisket looks so good in that video! *drools*

Here are my thoughts:

1. Sound quality. If the sound is bad and I can't really hear you properly, forget it. I'm switching off.

2. Video quality. As with sound, if it looks bad, poor resolution/frame rate, forget it.

3. Length. Less is always more! I've seen so many videos dragged out over 10 minutes when they could easily be trimmed to 3-4 minutes. No prolonged intros, don't tease with the title and then not answer it until 8 minutes in. I used to work for a drinks retailer and we produced half-a-dozen Christmas videos on how to open Champagne, how to make mulled wine etc - they were all 2 mins max (based on the advice of our in-house videographer). We watched some others to compare, and by 4-5 mins we were soooooo bored. 

4. Graphics/subtitles are always a benefit. Not too much - your video shouldn't look like a late-90s website with flashing icons all over the place, but well-chosen graphics can work wonders. I watch a lot of golf stuff on YouTube and the best YouTubers use graphics really well.

5. I don't think you necessarily need your face in the video ie it's not a dealbreaker. I watch Gugu Foods and some of his best videos don't have his face in.

6. Charisma is everything. If you don't warm to the person making/narrating the video, forget it. But if you don't have it, there's not much you can do about it!

7. With reference to your video, I like your use of speeding up the footage. That works really well (I would go even quicker, personally!). 

Will have a proper look/listen tonight. And good luck!

18 hours ago, Icefever said:

We do use rice wine but like Simon never heard of it,  but will try for ourselves.   

 

Ice.???

It's the same thing, I think, Ice.

Dry sherry is a decent alternative, too, I believe.

Ocado doing 3 for 2 on Big K Cocoshell briquettes at the moment.

(thinking about it, I'm sure it was someone on here who told me that! 😄)