ExclusiveBBQ Posted June 25, 2019 Author Share Posted June 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, Justin said: Think of the food miles though? Oh yeah for sure, but it'd be interesting to see the difference. I doubt that it'd be 'better' than anything you can get from the UK but is more likely to be similar to a competition-style brisket - my findings so far have suggested that it's going to be difficult to get my hands on a consistent supply of packer cut brisket that isn't rolled/trimmed to hell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phlashster Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 20 minutes ago, ExclusiveBBQ said: Oh yeah for sure, but it'd be interesting to see the difference. I doubt that it'd be 'better' than anything you can get from the UK but is more likely to be similar to a competition-style brisket - my findings so far have suggested that it's going to be difficult to get my hands on a consistent supply of packer cut brisket that isn't rolled/trimmed to hell. I think the Aus, Can and US briskets are very different from the UK ones as others have stated. The farming methods are different and the muscle build is different as a result. I am not saying one is better or worse than the other. UK brisket is leaner due to our farming methods and are far more trimmed as that is what the bulk of the UK seem to prefer. In addition, full packers are just not in demand in the UK. Very few butchers will stock them because they cant sell them. But if you build a relationship with a proper butcher (one that starts with the animal carcass not boxes of pre cut joints for further splitting), they can prepare you whatever you want. You just need to work with them and order in advance. My local farm shop has been brilliant. After a few purchases and building up a rapport, they will now do me whatever i want if i order in the few days before. They love that someone is spending 10 or 12 hours cooking some of their meat and love the results. They butcher their beef carcasses on Fridays in preparation for a strong weekend of sales. If i want a full packer, they will prepare it for me. All of that said, I haven't tried a brisket yet, I am still learning and honing my skills. (and cheating with technology ) My first though, is likely to be a foreign fattier brisket that will be more forgiving to build my own confidence. I will then happily try a UK one, but try and find a fattier example. I might even get the farm shop butcher to 'look out' for a fattier carcass and let me know. All of the reading, watching and cooking that i have done, convinces me that fat in the right place makes a huge difference to the outcome for low and slow. There is a reason that these butchers are buying in these briskets from abroad, and there are reasons why restaurants and competition teams buy them. Phil. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExclusiveBBQ Posted June 25, 2019 Author Share Posted June 25, 2019 1 hour ago, Phlashster said: I think the Aus, Can and US briskets are very different from the UK ones as others have stated. The farming methods are different and the muscle build is different as a result. I am not saying one is better or worse than the other. UK brisket is leaner due to our farming methods and are far more trimmed as that is what the bulk of the UK seem to prefer. In addition, full packers are just not in demand in the UK. Very few butchers will stock them because they cant sell them. But if you build a relationship with a proper butcher (one that starts with the animal carcass not boxes of pre cut joints for further splitting), they can prepare you whatever you want. You just need to work with them and order in advance. My local farm shop has been brilliant. After a few purchases and building up a rapport, they will now do me whatever i want if i order in the few days before. They love that someone is spending 10 or 12 hours cooking some of their meat and love the results. They butcher their beef carcasses on Fridays in preparation for a strong weekend of sales. If i want a full packer, they will prepare it for me. All of that said, I haven't tried a brisket yet, I am still learning and honing my skills. (and cheating with technology ) My first though, is likely to be a foreign fattier brisket that will be more forgiving to build my own confidence. I will then happily try a UK one, but try and find a fattier example. I might even get the farm shop butcher to 'look out' for a fattier carcass and let me know. All of the reading, watching and cooking that i have done, convinces me that fat in the right place makes a huge difference to the outcome for low and slow. There is a reason that these butchers are buying in these briskets from abroad, and there are reasons why restaurants and competition teams buy them. Phil. Really interesting stuff there, Phil. Establishing rapport with a local butcher who sources his own carcasses is definitely the long-term plan. Although I'm aiming to cook American-style brisket, it would be nice to be able to use meat from British cattle so I may have to do some digging into how they're farmed and what makes them different. Whilst a foreign brisket might be more forgiving, I'm throwing myself in at the deep end! And if I overcook it, there's always the classic tactic of smothering them in BBQ sauces and calling them 'burnt ends'. From all my reading and watching, I agree that the fat content is going to make things easier and have an impact on the final product. Alternatively, I bet the pitmasters of the USA would have little difficulty in producing an amazing product using UK meat if they needed to! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 I am blessed that c humphreys is the local abbatoir and farm shop which will butcher any cut you want straight from the carcass in front of you. They are brilliant 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phlashster Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 7 minutes ago, Justin said: I am blessed that c humphreys is the local abbatoir and farm shop which will butcher any cut you want straight from the carcass in front of you. They are brilliant Yep, that is the perfect position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phlashster Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 1 hour ago, ExclusiveBBQ said: it would be nice to be able to use meat from British cattle so I may have to do some digging into how they're farmed and what makes them different.ho sources his own carcasses is definitely the long-term plan. My high level understanding (again from various sources of reading etc. I am not a farmer or claim to be an expert. This is just my personal view of the information I think I know.) is differences in diet, animal life and farming scale. Foreign cattle farms (particularly the ones called out as producing great briskets) are often huge in comparison to UK ones. Both in terms of herd size and geography. The animals can typically be several times older at slaughter than UK farms. This longer life means more time to lay down intramuscular fat. Different dietary foods can also promote fat generation. I know that there are amazing UK farmers and beef products. I am in no way suggesting these aren't worthy of the time and care we give our food. But if you want to cook an American BBQ style brisket, you are probably best starting with an American style brisket. Quote And if I overcook it, there's always the classic tactic of smothering them in BBQ sauces and calling them 'burnt ends'. Tactic! Tactic! It was always meant to turn out that way. Honest. 🤣 Quote Alternatively, I bet the pitmasters of the USA would have little difficulty in producing an amazing product using UK meat if they needed to! I am sure they can. When you see Aaron Franklin talking about how he selects his briskets, he knows what he is looking for to get the final product he likes. It would be an amazing result with a different style of brisket, just different. It might be dryer but more flavourful. Maybe we can start a UK brisket movement. Phil. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 Agreed, I will stick with UK Brisket though I think. Thank you for doing some reading up and explaining. I will talk with my butcher at C Humphreys and Son about this sometime 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phlashster Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 18 minutes ago, Justin said: Agreed, I will stick with UK Brisket though I think. It was never intended to try and change anyone's mind. Just trying to round out the discussion with additional info and explain the differences as I see them. I cook UK brisket too. It is one of my favourite beef cuts. So much flavour and tender as anything when cooked just so. I just haven't tried to make it like a US BBQ style brisket. Phil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExclusiveBBQ Posted June 25, 2019 Author Share Posted June 25, 2019 Just now, Phlashster said: It was never intended to try and change anyone's mind. Just trying to round out the discussion with additional info and explain the differences as I see them. I cook UK brisket too. It is one of my favourite beef cuts. So much flavour and tender as anything when cooked just so. I just haven't tried to make it like a US BBQ style brisket. Phil. I realise now, from reading this, that my goals are perhaps a bit different to most. I want to be able to replicate the ultimate low-and-slow, Texas-style brisket that you'd only find by going over there yourself. The funny thing is that I've never been over there and the closest I've gotten is eating at Hickory's Smokehouse in Castle Bromwich - which served up some of the best meat I've ever eaten and was the inspiration for my quest. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotv Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 If I was paying £60+ for a full packer brisket, I would want the best quality cut, wherever it originated from. 46 minutes ago, ExclusiveBBQ said: I realise now, from reading this, that my goals are perhaps a bit different to most. I want to be able to replicate the ultimate low-and-slow, Texas-style brisket that you'd only find by going over there yourself. The funny thing is that I've never been over there and the closest I've gotten is eating at Hickory's Smokehouse in Castle Bromwich - which served up some of the best meat I've ever eaten and was the inspiration for my quest. You ever been to Digbeth Dining Club at the back of Selfridges by Moor Street Station on a weekend, stunning street food to buy from a variety of vendors including Brisket. Some great photos if you click on some of the traders icons Been a few times after the football on a Saturday, a good night, food and atmosphere. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 Been there, its ok. Nothing different to what I used to see when I go into my office in the city and in Devonshire square or around the Sterling. I do not like going into London anymore, to rush rush and hectic . I only go in now when I have too, spent far too many years commuting in for work. I think i will bbq a brisket sometime soon, dinner and lunches but I also find Skirt steak smoked makes a delicious cold cut the next day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phlashster Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 All this talk of brisket has made my chicken sandwich for lunch seem very bland. 😀 11 minutes ago, sotv said: You ever been to Digbeth Dining Club at the back of Selfridges by Moor Street Station on a weekend, stunning street food to buy from a variety of vendors including Brisket. Unfortunately I haven't. I am only ever here during the week. 😢 Phil. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raptor72 Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 I had chicken avocado and boiled egg ! So you can stick your Brisket in your pipe and smoke it ! Metaphorically speaking 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 Orange dust Smoked salmon that i smoked the other day. yummy. Will try and save some for billing, unlikely but will try Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExclusiveBBQ Posted June 25, 2019 Author Share Posted June 25, 2019 22 minutes ago, sotv said: If I was paying £60+ for a full packer brisket, I would want the best quality cut, wherever it originated from. You ever been to Digbeth Dining Club at the back of Selfridges by Moor Street Station on a weekend, stunning street food to buy from a variety of vendors including Brisket. Some great photos if you click on some of the traders icons Been a few times after the football on a Saturday, a good night, food and atmosphere. Fully agree about quality, and I suspect that we're quite proud of using British produce and thinking we're the best but it wouldn't surprise me if the Australian, Canadian or USA stuff is just better for low-and-slow. And I still need to visit the dining club - annoyingly, I was in Birmingham on Saturday with the wife and it didn't even cross my mind! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 Sorry I disagree mate, it is not pride it is logic. I have cooked a full uk brisket before and it was great. Not saying it is better than US or Aussie packer just it is illogical to fly in meat from overseas when we have good meat there. That is my choice, everyone has their own choice, I am not preaching, you go for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExclusiveBBQ Posted June 25, 2019 Author Share Posted June 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, Justin said: Sorry I disagree mate, it is not pride it is logic. I have cooked a full uk brisket before and it was great. Not saying it is better than US or Aussie packer just it is illogical to fly in meat from overseas when we have good meat there. That is my choice, everyone has their own choice, I am not preaching, you go for it. It defies logic I suppose. Whilst I've yet to buy any foreign imported meat, I'll be surprised if the stuff we get over here is as suitable to low-and-slow BBQ when compared to offerings in USA, Canada and Australia etc. You could argue that the fact that there's a market for it defies logic as well, but it also speaks volumes about the type of customers that most butchers are catering to. I'll be contacting local butchers soon to get a good run down of what's out there and will keep everyone updated. I've got my first brisket coming from Essex later this week and, it could be amazing - we'll see! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icefever Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 1 hour ago, ExclusiveBBQ said: Hickory's Smokehouse in Castle Bromwich Looks like you had a better meal than us then, we went to the Burton Green smokehouse a few months back and it was crap. If I dished up meat like that I would pack it in....and take up train spotting.....😎 Ice. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotv Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 32 minutes ago, Phlashster said: All this talk of brisket has made my chicken sandwich for lunch seem very bland. 😀 Unfortunately I haven't. I am only ever here during the week. 😢 Phil. We like a long weekend in Brum, it is usually on Thursdays-Sundays 😁 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExclusiveBBQ Posted June 25, 2019 Author Share Posted June 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, Icefever said: Looks like you had a better meal than us then, we went to the Burton Green smokehouse a few months back and it was crap. If I dished up meat like that I would pack it in....and take up train spotting.....😎 Ice. Oh damn, that's a shame. The brisket I had was honestly superb but then I've got nothing better to compare it to... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sub333 Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 Is it true that all US beef is corn-fed and all British beef is grass-fed? I tried both at the New St Grill nr Liverpool Street, and while the corn-fed was tender, it had way less flavour than the grass-fed. There's a section in the Hawksmoor cookbook that explains the difference between the two, and it's rather illuminating... Will post it on here when I have a sec Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokin Monkey Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 1 hour ago, sub333 said: There's a section in the Hawksmoor cookbook that explains the difference between the two, and it's rather illuminating... Will post it on here when I have a sec If copying to the Forum, please quote source, copyright and all that. Sorry to be the Forum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sub333 Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 4 minutes ago, Smokin Monkey said: If copying to the Forum, please quote source, copyright and all that. Sorry to be the Forum Don't worry, I'll just precis it. Easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExclusiveBBQ Posted June 25, 2019 Author Share Posted June 25, 2019 4 hours ago, sub333 said: Is it true that all US beef is corn-fed and all British beef is grass-fed? I tried both at the New St Grill nr Liverpool Street, and while the corn-fed was tender, it had way less flavour than the grass-fed. There's a section in the Hawksmoor cookbook that explains the difference between the two, and it's rather illuminating... Will post it on here when I have a sec Would be really interested in seeing that section! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin Tunnell Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 I would love to see the section from the Hawksmoor cookbook as well. I love using Australian Brisket's as they are Grain fed but the flavor is really good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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