MarcWillm Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 Wonderful, please can you email me @ marc@wealdpackaging.co.uk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotv Posted August 18, 2018 Author Share Posted August 18, 2018 Got the meat today. Got a piece of pork belly that weighs 0.825kg and I had to settle in the end for 2 small cuts of Salmon Beef as the butcher informed me, when they are on offer, like they are this week they sell out super quick and the bigger joints had already gone, by the time I had got there. I can get a bigger piece next week if the 2 smaller pieces (0.58Kg and 0.61kg) aren't workable sizes?. But if they are they give me a chance of trying Wade and Marcs recipes, rather than just the 1. The Salmon cuts although small look fabulous no noticeable fat running through the joints themselves at all. I am sure I can work the weights of the spices out by dividing the spices by a third for the weight of beef I have, based on previously posted weights. Would be grateful if someone can confirm the amount of Cure and kosher salt I would need to cure the beef and pork successfully based on the weights I have given. As it is always a bit of a worry as a novice, making sure you have that part of it correct. Also if anyone can give me an idea of amount of merlot needed to marinate 0.6kg of the beef in that would be great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokin Monkey Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 Hi Sotv, what system are you using Android or iOS? If you are running iOS, have a look in Apps for iSmokehogs Cure Calculator. This is a great app to have, Just put the weight of the meat in and it will calculate the cure for you. You can also,change the PPM. There is also a site with a cure calculator on, http://www.diggingdogfarm.com/page2.html There lots or cure calculators on the web to use, this way it will put your mind at rest that the calculations are correct. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotv Posted August 18, 2018 Author Share Posted August 18, 2018 2 hours ago, Smokin Monkey said: Hi Sotv, what system are you using Android or iOS? If you are running iOS, have a look in Apps for iSmokehogs Cure Calculator. This is a great app to have, Just put the weight of the meat in and it will calculate the cure for you. You can also,change the PPM. There is also a site with a cure calculator on, http://www.diggingdogfarm.com/page2.html There lots or cure calculators on the web to use, this way it will put your mind at rest that the calculations are correct. Cheers, Just used the diggingdog one thanks hopefully got it right now, jst need to sort the merlot marinade out now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 To compare how the Dry Age Bags in the fridge compare with traditional air dried meats in muslin I have started a comparison trial of some Pancetta and Bresaola. The results will not be available for a couple of months but I will post up the process and results then. Pancetta A single bone-in pork belly which I removed the skin and bone. I also trimmed off excess fat so that none was more than 5-8 mm thick. Cut into 3 pieces, each about 1 Kg in weight and their weights recorded. Identical cure was made for each piece with salt at 2.5% and Cure#2 to give ~130 Ppm ingoing Nitrite and a traditional mix of herbs/spices. Two pieces will be rolled and one will be aged in a Dry Age bag in the fridge and the second in muslin at room temperature. The third piece will be left flat but aged in a bag in the fridge but it will first be smoked after the initial curing stage. Bresaola Two Silverside beef joints were bought ensuring that there was no apparent marbling within the meat. All fat and silvery membranes were removed and the joint split in half length-ways. Each cured using identical cures with salt at 2.5% and Cure#2 to give ~130 Ppm ingoing Nitrite and a traditional mix of herbs/spices. Two will be aged in Dry Age bags in the fridge and the other two air dried in muslin at room temperature. One of each pair will be smoked after the initial curing. Hopefully, for those about to attempt one of either of these for the first time it will give you some general pointers to get you started. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 (edited) Very helpful. I did not realise you can age meat at room temperature in muslin. Can i use air dry bags at room temperature? Edited August 21, 2018 by Justin typos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotv Posted August 19, 2018 Author Share Posted August 19, 2018 Just finished my 2 pieces of bresaola (1 of them marinating in merlot, but will cure piece that tomorrow) and a piece of pancetta.. Thanks for the fabulous guide Wade, made things much easier visually and the Nitrite ppm measurement gave me peace of mind. If possible, if you remember and happy to do so? . As I have started the same time as you, if you can add when you take them out of vacuum bag and put them in the dry age bag, when and how long you smoked the pancetta for and when you think the whole process has completed it would certainly help me along the way and maybe others, especially with the timings? I know about the losing the third of the weight for the beef before it is ready, so will weigh them before I put them in dry age bags.and make a note of it As a novice one thing I found difficult especially with the first piece of beef, was removing the silverskin. Little or no fat round outside of it nd it certainly doesn't pull off the meat like the spare rib membrane does. Found the second piece easier as that had a cap of fat and much easier to run a knife down the edge of the fat as that takes the silverskin with it. Lose about 10% off the weight of the meat removing fat and silverskin, so definitely re-weigh and don't go by the butchers weight you bought it at for your cure. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 Traditionally charcuterie has been dry aged at between ~10-15 C in 65-75% humidity - cellar conditions. That is why cellars were often used to dry age the meat. I will be drying these at ~18-19 C in an air conditioned food prep kitchen - so not ideal but it will be fine. The important thing is to not let the meat dry out too rapidly or you get the surface layer hardening and preventing the moisture from the inside escaping. What you are looking for is a nice slow even drying where the whole of the meat can equilibrate as it dries out. 1 hour ago, Justin said: Can i use air dry bags at room temperature? I guess there is nothing to stop you from doing this but I am not sure. All of the instructions I have seen so far regarding the Dry Age bags calls for the ageing to take place in the fridge. I am not sure if this is for convenience or whether the bags need to be kept chilled when in use. Maybe @MarcWillm can clarify this for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 17 minutes ago, sotv said: If possible, if you remember and happy to do so? . As I have started the same time as you, if you can add when you take them out of vacuum bag and put them in the dry age bag, when and how long you smoked the pancetta for and when you think the whole process has completed it would certainly help me along the way and maybe others, especially with the timings? I know about the losing the third of the weight for the beef before it is ready, so will weigh them before I put them in dry age bags.and make a note of it Yes I will do that. As a guide - I will leave the belly pork curing for 10 days and the beef for 14. The belly pork will actually be suitably cured within a week but, within reason, you cannot over cure when dry curing. Quote As a novice one thing I found difficult especially with the first piece of beef, was removing the silverskin. Little or no fat round outside of it nd it certainly doesn't pull off the meat like the spare rib membrane does. Found the second piece easier as that had a cap of fat and much easier to run a knife down the edge of the fat as that takes the silverskin with it. Lose about 10% off the weight of the meat removing fat and silverskin, so definitely re-weigh and don't go by the butchers weight you bought it at for your cure. The secret of this is to use a very sharp filleting knife. If the knife is not sharp then it can be very tricky and a lot of meat can be wasted. Loosen the silver membrane along one edge and then angle the blade slightly up and gently slice while pulling up the membrane as it comes off. It should come off as a series of sheets - but not always in one piece... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 The belly pork that I am using is quite thin and will roll easily. If yours is thicker then when it is in the bag with the cure, lightly run a rolling pin along the length of it to thin it slightly and then cure it with a board and some weight on top. The weight does not need to be heavy - a 4 pint container of milk will be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icefever Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 I've re-read this thread twice now, and will properly read it again. It looks like something we may like to try??? Ice 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotv Posted August 21, 2018 Author Share Posted August 21, 2018 Hope I am not to out of order here Wade. I was going round Morrison's today and they had some fabulous looking Whole Salmon and Trouts on display. I was going to get a whole trout, and thought I really would like to do it the way Wade has described it in the past. Athough mine have been edible, I am sure they could be better. I personally found the method explanation and the step by step guide along with the photos, really helped me with the Beef and Pancetta and gave me a lot of confidence to be able to do it, by following your post. Wondered next time you do a side of salmon/trout whether Gravalax or the other method or both. Could you do a similar visual/written guide for that. If request a bit out of order, I won't be offended by a no. But you don't get, if you don't ask..? As I say I found it a great help and maybe others would to if you were able or willing to do it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 (edited) 26 minutes ago, sotv said: Hope I am not to out of order here Wade. I was going round Morrison's today and they had some fabulous looking Whole Salmon and Trouts on display. I was going to get a whole trout, and thought I really would like to do it the way Wade has described it in the past. Athough mine have been edible, I am sure they could be better. I personally found the method explanation and the step by step guide along with the photos, really helped me with the Beef and Pancetta and gave me a lot of confidence to be able to do it, by following your post. Wondered next time you do a side of salmon/trout whether Gravalax or the other method or both. Could you do a similar visual/written guide for that. If request a bit out of order, I won't be offended by a no. But you don't get, if you don't ask..? As I say I found it a great help and maybe others would to if you were able or willing to do it? Or you could do it mate? Demonstrate what you do as Wade has done? Recipe I have for Salmon Gravlax (makes about 800) is: · 1 piece Salmon - 900g skin on (preferably not tail end) · 3 tbsp kosher salt · 1.5 tbsp granulated sugar (Tubinardo sugar is good if you can find it as it has similar granulation to kosher sugar and mixes nice) · 1.5 tbsp cracked black pepper · 1.5 cups fresh dill Inspect salmon and remove any scales and pin bones (use tweezers to remove pin bones) In small bowl mix salt sugar and cracked peppercorns. Cut a piece of plastic wrap long enough to wrap salmon comfortably. Lay on work surface. Sprinkle half the slat mixture down centre of wrap approximately the length and width of the salmon. Top with half the dill. Lay salmon skin side down on top. top with remaining dill and then sprinkle remaining salt mix on top. Pull up plastic wrap around salmon to enclose. Place wrapped salmon in sous vide pouch and seal. Put in fridge to 3 to 5 days. (this is a fairly light cure, so it is hard to over cure the salmon. 3 days is fine but if want to serve 4 or 5 days later then that is fine too) Open pouch and remove salmon, remove plastic wrap and the dill, carefully remove any pepper embedded in salmon, and then wipe with paper towels To serve slice very thinly crosswise, cut through the flesh to the skin and then then cut slices off the skin leaving the skin intact in one single piece. Re-wrap any unused unsliced salmon (skin on) and seal in a clean sous vide bag. Store in fridge for up to 1 week or freeze in sealed pouch for up to 2 months, thaw overnight in fridge before using. (Do not discard skin. Seal in sous vide pouch and freeze for another recipe use like Gravlax Salad with Cucumbers, New Potatoes and Crispy Gravlax skin). SCALING: To make gravlax you can use as little as 450g or as much as whole single fillet. Weigh the salmon and use 7.5g sugar and 15g kosher salt for each 450g of salmon, adjust pepper and dill appropriately Edited August 21, 2018 by Justin 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 1 hour ago, sotv said: Wondered next time you do a side of salmon/trout whether Gravalax or the other method or both. Could you do a similar visual/written guide for that. If request a bit out of order, I won't be offended by a no. But you don't get, if you don't ask.. Before I do another one, did you see my previous step-by-stem guide? - http://www.woodsmokeforum.uk/topic/23-traditional-smoked-salmon-and-trout/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotv Posted August 21, 2018 Author Share Posted August 21, 2018 16 minutes ago, Wade said: Before I do another one, did you see my previous step-by-stem guide? - http://www.woodsmokeforum.uk/topic/23-traditional-smoked-salmon-and-trout/ Great Wade, forgot about it, even though I commented on the thread last year.. Just what I was after.? The beef looks lovely by the way, big variation in colour based on the marinated one and unmarinated one. Sat in the fridge now, doing there thing in the vacuum bags Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 (edited) Just an idea bu if we could put up pricing paid for meat that members buy that would help other member to source? Edited August 21, 2018 by Justin 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcWillm Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 Hello everyone, Just to confirm i am off work for a couple of weeks so please bear with me as it may take me a few days to catch up. For those that have asked me questions and i haven't answered please email me marc@wealdpackaging.co.uk and i will come back to you ASAP. M 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotv Posted August 24, 2018 Author Share Posted August 24, 2018 (edited) Forgot to add pictures of the meats I did, whilst preparing them. Here is a photo though of them all bagged up and doing their thing currently in the fridge. The top left is the salmon beef after marinading in merlot and the non marinated one is on the top right. The pancetta is on the bottom Edited August 24, 2018 by sotv 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Posted August 27, 2018 Share Posted August 27, 2018 The pork belly has been curing now for 8 days. I will roll and bag it on Wednesday as that will be 10 days. The beef I will leave for 14 days and so will be bagged next Sunday or Monday 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotv Posted August 28, 2018 Author Share Posted August 28, 2018 Thanks Wade for the update, Marc kindly sent me some sample bags,. I will be following you and transfer to the Dry Age bags as per your info. Quick question. after you wash the cure etc off the pancetta and beef, do you just pat dry and bag them up or leave to dry a little longer before bagging them up? Anyone else interested in giving it a go. Morrisons doing the Salmon Cut Beef again at £8 a kg this week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 45 minutes ago, sotv said: Quick question. after you wash the cure etc off the pancetta and beef, do you just pat dry and bag them up or leave to dry a little longer before bagging them up? I will pat them dry and then leave them in the fridge for an hour or two before rolling. The next stage is all about removing moisture from the meat and so any moisture that would be introduced into the centre of the meat roll is best removed at this stage. It is not critical though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 Next stages for the Pancetta... Cure bags removed from fridge Cured belly removed from bags and well rinsed Belly rolled and tied. One piece ready for the smoker. One rolled belly in muslin and the other vac packed in an Air Dry bag One left to air dry in kitchen and the other in the fridge. I am hanging the Air Dry bag in the fridge to save space. If I see that the bag begins to pull away from the meat I will lay it on its side. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotv Posted August 31, 2018 Author Share Posted August 31, 2018 (edited) 21 hours ago, Wade said: Next stages for the Pancetta.. Belly rolled and tied. One piece ready for the smoker. How long do you intend smoking the pancetta for? Will the smoke added to the meat still settle in a dry age bag as it would a normal vacuum packed bag, over time do you think? Edited August 31, 2018 by sotv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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